P&TG034
2012/03/25 11:11
Play Episode
Recording Date - 25 / Mar / 2012
Show Leader - [Andrew]
Intro Song -
Guest -
Host intros -
Curmudgeon Corner -
Emails -
Shove it in your pie-hole -
BREAK -
News -
Media-Gasm -
New & Cool -
More News -
Outro Song -
Emails - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: Shane
Message: i like the show notes page. I find myself googling the things mentioned only to realize moments later that everything is linked up for my convenience. so generous. the show isn't bad either.
it only takes 3 minutes to get a bitcoin address, and you could be generating income. i might send something cool, but if you had a place to send bitcoins, that'd be even cooler.
From: Brigid
Message: will listener submissions be considered for musics sent in for "band of the week"?
fuckers.
From: Nik
Message: Hey Gang. You said in episode 31 that you hadn't received any emails in a while, so I thought I'd drop you a line. (To the Feds who are no doubt reading this, that is not a drug solicitation.)
In episode 31, Dale said that one reason why he decided to describe himself as a panentheist was because nobody makes decisions in a vacuum. We and everything are all "connected" by inscrutable causal lines, implying that we are all just small parts of some greater whole that might as well be called God.
I find it interesting that this realization led Dale to conclude that the whole universe is one big consciousness, when the natural conclusion it leads *me* to is that consciousness itself is just a regular biochemical reaction like any other. The arguments I heard him use in that episode for why he is a panentheist are exactly the same kinds of arguments that atheists, especially (but not exclusively) deterministic atheists, would use to explain away the need for the soul or any other supernatural factor as a motivating force behind consciousness.
The other, far deeper problem with calling oneself a religious or "spiritual" person on this basis is that, as I learned in my first class on the philosophy of religion, one defining characteristic of religions is that they propose a clear distinction between that which is sacred or "supernatural" and that which is material or "natural". In other words, saying that "all is one" or that "all is part of a greater whole", as Dale does, is exactly the opposite of being religious, because it denies the existence of the supernatural, which by definition has to be separate enough from the natural world to be worthy of a differing classification. I feel that the very fundamental assumption that atheism itself rests upon *is* the idea that "all is one" -- that everything is part of the same whole following the same consistent rules and that there are no special classes of beings or things that operate by completely different rules which would make them worthy of being described as supernatural.
So what it seems that it really comes down to when one describes oneself as Dale and Ian do is a choice to characterize the sum of all natural, physical reactions, from chemicals bubbling in test tubes to thoughts bubbling in brains, as one giant consciousness instead of, say, one giant chemical reaction.
I don't know Dale nearly well enough to guess at his reasons for arriving at the more religious-sounding characterization, but I do find it perplexing that he would turn from an atheist to a spiritualist as a result of looking at exactly the same kind of data that I think points in the exact opposite direction.
If you ever get Dale on the show again or have a chance to talk to him about this, I'm curious to know what practical difference it makes if the universe did turn out to be "a giant consciousness" as opposed to a giant complex chemical reaction. What could we theoretically experience that would make this an appropriate description? If Christians are right, for example, we can all expect to experience hell after we die, or we could theoretically meet God and ask him to do cool shit for us that science can't explain. But in the case of panentheism, if everything is supposed to be all part of God, then is there any kind of cool shit *we* should be able to do as a result?
Sorry for another long email, but remember: You basically asked for this one!
From: Adam
Message: the sunday show you guys did on FTL was my favourite show, too. it's liberating to know there are words for worse freaks than me. getting kicked off a pirate radio station only proves the free market works,
Recording Date - 25 / Mar / 2012
Show Leader - [Andrew]
Intro Song -
- [artist] Matt Dusk
- [song] All About Me
Guest -
- [Name] Michael Garcia
- [About] Fight game event coordinator.
- [URL] www.YouTube.com/TheProudGarcias
Host intros -
- Luthor is gone - probably-definitely
- Surprise from Brigid!
- Puke’s new bicycle!
Curmudgeon Corner -
- [andrew] Fun ruiners, providing encouragement instead of making fun.
- [andrew] Cheerleader carwashes
- [nick] I don’t know how to cook and I hate my life.
- [nick] I want to record people arguing in public.
- [puke] Shampoo bottles that can’t be set upside-down!
Emails -
- See Below
Shove it in your pie-hole -
- [drink] Anchor Brewing
- [drink] Unibroue La Terrible
BREAK -
- [artist] Matt Dusk
- [song] Back In Town
News -
- [andrew] Zimmerman/Martin follow up (Zimmerman 911 call) (Giraldo Rivera tells kids to stop wearing hoodies cuz they will get shot)
- [puke] Snow Globe Starts Fire in Oregon Man’s Home - ABC News
- [nick] Man Climbs Everest While Card-Counting [2011 interview on TODAY show]
Media-Gasm -
- [puke]
- [andrew]
- Defending Your Life - One of my new favorite movies of all time.
- [michael]
- Ironclad - Michael liked it!
New & Cool -
- [andrew] TMNT
- [andrew] Nokia Tattoo
More News -
- [nick] Fake test scores
- [andrew] Facebook is for faggots!
Outro Song -
- [artist] Matt Dusk
- [song] the theme from Loaded Gun
- ______________________________________________________________________
- Nick needs a mic stand.
- Most iPads in the studio…so far.
- Nick’s magnificent head.
- Nick demonstrates his arm-flailing technique for shampoo bottles.
- Corks are scary.
- PANIC! Nick spilled beer on his precious!
- Andrew gets his hands on Puke’s camera.
Emails - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: Shane
Message: i like the show notes page. I find myself googling the things mentioned only to realize moments later that everything is linked up for my convenience. so generous. the show isn't bad either.
it only takes 3 minutes to get a bitcoin address, and you could be generating income. i might send something cool, but if you had a place to send bitcoins, that'd be even cooler.
From: Brigid
Message: will listener submissions be considered for musics sent in for "band of the week"?
fuckers.
From: Nik
Message: Hey Gang. You said in episode 31 that you hadn't received any emails in a while, so I thought I'd drop you a line. (To the Feds who are no doubt reading this, that is not a drug solicitation.)
In episode 31, Dale said that one reason why he decided to describe himself as a panentheist was because nobody makes decisions in a vacuum. We and everything are all "connected" by inscrutable causal lines, implying that we are all just small parts of some greater whole that might as well be called God.
I find it interesting that this realization led Dale to conclude that the whole universe is one big consciousness, when the natural conclusion it leads *me* to is that consciousness itself is just a regular biochemical reaction like any other. The arguments I heard him use in that episode for why he is a panentheist are exactly the same kinds of arguments that atheists, especially (but not exclusively) deterministic atheists, would use to explain away the need for the soul or any other supernatural factor as a motivating force behind consciousness.
The other, far deeper problem with calling oneself a religious or "spiritual" person on this basis is that, as I learned in my first class on the philosophy of religion, one defining characteristic of religions is that they propose a clear distinction between that which is sacred or "supernatural" and that which is material or "natural". In other words, saying that "all is one" or that "all is part of a greater whole", as Dale does, is exactly the opposite of being religious, because it denies the existence of the supernatural, which by definition has to be separate enough from the natural world to be worthy of a differing classification. I feel that the very fundamental assumption that atheism itself rests upon *is* the idea that "all is one" -- that everything is part of the same whole following the same consistent rules and that there are no special classes of beings or things that operate by completely different rules which would make them worthy of being described as supernatural.
So what it seems that it really comes down to when one describes oneself as Dale and Ian do is a choice to characterize the sum of all natural, physical reactions, from chemicals bubbling in test tubes to thoughts bubbling in brains, as one giant consciousness instead of, say, one giant chemical reaction.
I don't know Dale nearly well enough to guess at his reasons for arriving at the more religious-sounding characterization, but I do find it perplexing that he would turn from an atheist to a spiritualist as a result of looking at exactly the same kind of data that I think points in the exact opposite direction.
If you ever get Dale on the show again or have a chance to talk to him about this, I'm curious to know what practical difference it makes if the universe did turn out to be "a giant consciousness" as opposed to a giant complex chemical reaction. What could we theoretically experience that would make this an appropriate description? If Christians are right, for example, we can all expect to experience hell after we die, or we could theoretically meet God and ask him to do cool shit for us that science can't explain. But in the case of panentheism, if everything is supposed to be all part of God, then is there any kind of cool shit *we* should be able to do as a result?
Sorry for another long email, but remember: You basically asked for this one!
From: Adam
Message: the sunday show you guys did on FTL was my favourite show, too. it's liberating to know there are words for worse freaks than me. getting kicked off a pirate radio station only proves the free market works,
